La Guerra Civil española: por qué todavía importa

Socialistas, comunistas, anarquistas, catalanes y vascos que querían independencia.

Socialists, communists, anarchists, Catalans and Basques who wanted independence.

No siempre estaban de acuerdo entre ellos.

They didn't always agree with each other.

Eso fue un gran problema.

That was a big problem.

Y en el lado de Franco, estaban los militares, la Iglesia, los monárquicos y los fascistas de la Falange.

And on Franco's side were the military, the Church, the monarchists, and the fascists of the Falange.

And this is something George Orwell wrote about brilliantly.

He went to Spain to fight for the Republic, and he saw the left tearing itself apart from the inside.

Communists fighting anarchists.

Stalin's agents hunting down people who were supposed to be on the same side.

It's one of the great tragedies of the war.

Es que Orwell es fundamental para entender esta guerra.

The thing is, Orwell is essential to understanding this war.

Su libro, 'Homenaje a Cataluña', es increíble.

His book, 'Homage to Catalonia,' is incredible.

Él vio con sus propios ojos cómo la revolución en Barcelona era algo hermoso y también algo terrible.

He saw with his own eyes how the revolution in Barcelona was something beautiful and also something terrible.

Luchó en el frente, recibió un disparo en el cuello, y después tuvo que escapar porque los comunistas estalinistas lo querían eliminar.

He fought on the front, was shot in the neck, and then had to escape because the Stalinist communists wanted to eliminate him.

Now, here's the thing that makes this war bigger than Spain.

Because it wasn't just a Spanish war, was it?

This was really the first battle of World War II, in a way.

Hitler and Mussolini backed Franco.

Stalin backed the Republic, sort of.

And the democracies, Britain, France, the United States, they did nothing.

Eso todavía nos duele mucho.

That still hurts us a lot.

Las democracias europeas crearon el Comité de No Intervención.

The European democracies created the Non-Intervention Committee.

Dijeron: 'No vamos a participar en esta guerra.' Pero mira la realidad.

They said: 'We're not going to participate in this war.' But look at the reality.

Alemania e Italia mandaron aviones, soldados y armas a Franco.

Germany and Italy sent planes, soldiers, and weapons to Franco.

Y las democracias miraron hacia otro lado.

And the democracies looked the other way.

Fue una hipocresía enorme.

It was an enormous hypocrisy.

Look, I covered foreign policy for decades, and this pattern repeats itself throughout the twentieth century.

Democracies standing by while authoritarian powers intervene.

Spain was the template.

And there's one event that really captures the horror of that international dimension.

Guernica.

Guernica.

Guernica.

El 26 de abril de 1937.

April 26, 1937.

Aviones alemanes de la Legión Cóndor bombardearon una pequeña ciudad del País Vasco.

German planes from the Condor Legion bombed a small Basque town.

Era día de mercado.

It was market day.

Había gente normal comprando comida.

There were normal people buying food.

Y los aviones destruyeron la ciudad casi completamente.

And the planes destroyed the city almost completely.

Murieron muchas personas civiles.

Many civilians died.

Fue la primera vez en la historia moderna que alguien bombardeó una ciudad civil de esa manera.

It was the first time in modern history that someone bombed a civilian city in that way.

And then Picasso painted it.

That enormous painting, 'Guernica,' which hangs now in the Reina Sofía museum in Madrid.

I've stood in front of it twice, and both times I couldn't move.

The extraordinary thing is that a painting can communicate the horror of war more powerfully than any photograph.

Es verdad.

It's true.

Picasso no quería que el cuadro viniera a España mientras Franco estaba vivo.

Picasso didn't want the painting to come to Spain while Franco was alive.

El cuadro estuvo muchos años en Nueva York, en el MoMA.

The painting was in New York for many years, at MoMA.

Solo llegó a España en 1981, seis años después de la muerte de Franco.

It only arrived in Spain in 1981, six years after Franco's death.

Para muchos españoles, ese momento fue muy simbólico.

For many Spaniards, that moment was very symbolic.

Era como decir: ahora somos libres otra vez.

It was like saying: now we are free again.

I didn't know that detail about Picasso's condition.

That's remarkable.

So the war ends in 1939.

Franco wins.

And then what?

Because I think this is where a lot of people's knowledge just stops.

They know there was a civil war, they know Franco won, and then there's a blank until democracy appears in the seventies.

Mira, eso es lo que me frustra.

Look, that's what frustrates me.

Porque lo que pasó después de la guerra fue terrible.

Because what happened after the war was terrible.

Franco no perdonó a nadie.

Franco didn't forgive anyone.

Hubo ejecuciones, campos de concentración, prisiones.

There were executions, concentration camps, prisons.

Miles de personas tuvieron que escapar de España.

Thousands of people had to flee Spain.

Fueron a Francia, a México, a Argentina.

They went to France, Mexico, Argentina.

Mi abuelo tuvo suerte, sobrevivió.

My grandfather was lucky, he survived.

Pero muchos de sus amigos no.

But many of his friends didn't.

The numbers are staggering when you actually look at them.

Something like half a million refugees crossed into France in early 1939.

And France, I should say, did not exactly welcome them with open arms.

Many ended up in camps on beaches in the south of France, in terrible conditions.

Y Franco gobernó España durante casi cuarenta años.

And Franco ruled Spain for almost forty years.

Hasta 1975.

Until 1975.

Eso es importantísimo para entender España hoy.

That's extremely important for understanding Spain today.

Durante cuarenta años, una dictadura controló lo que la gente podía decir, leer, pensar.

For forty years, a dictatorship controlled what people could say, read, think.

Si tus ideas eran diferentes, podías ir a la cárcel.

If your ideas were different, you could go to prison.

O algo peor.

Or worse.

So Franco dies in 1975.

Spain transitions to democracy.

And this is where we get to the part that I find most fascinating, and honestly most troubling.

The Pact of Forgetting.

Can you explain that?

Because I remember when I was reporting that piece in Madrid, this kept coming up, and I couldn't quite believe it.

Bueno, después de Franco, los políticos españoles tomaron una decisión.

Well, after Franco, Spanish politicians made a decision.

Para crear la democracia, decidieron no hablar del pasado.

To create democracy, they decided not to talk about the past.

No hubo juicios contra los responsables de la dictadura.

There were no trials against those responsible for the dictatorship.

No hubo investigaciones.

No investigations.

La idea era: si miramos atrás, vamos a dividirnos otra vez.

The idea was: if we look back, we're going to divide ourselves again.

Es mejor mirar hacia adelante.

It's better to look forward.

And I'll be honest, I can see the logic.

I covered South Africa, I covered the Balkans.

Transitional justice is incredibly difficult.

But the trade-off in Spain was that an entire generation of victims just never got justice.

Never got acknowledgment.

Is that a price worth paying?

Es que esa es la gran pregunta, Fletcher.

That's the big question, Fletcher.

Y los españoles no estamos de acuerdo.

And Spaniards don't agree.

Hay personas que dicen: la Transición fue un éxito, España pasó de una dictadura a una democracia sin violencia.

There are people who say: the Transition was a success, Spain went from a dictatorship to a democracy without violence.

Es verdad.

That's true.

Pero hay otras personas que dicen: mi abuelo está en una fosa común y nadie sabe dónde.

But there are other people who say: my grandfather is in a mass grave and nobody knows where.

¿Eso es éxito?

Is that success?

No, you're absolutely right about that.

And this is where it connects to the present, because those mass graves are real.

They're still being opened.

There are estimates of over a hundred thousand people still unaccounted for in unmarked graves across Spain.

A hundred thousand.

Cien mil.

A hundred thousand.

Es un número que es difícil de comprender.

It's a number that's hard to comprehend.

España es, después de Camboya, el segundo país del mundo con más desaparecidos en fosas comunes.

Spain is, after Cambodia, the second country in the world with the most people missing in mass graves.

Cuando digo eso, la gente fuera de España no lo cree.

When I say that, people outside Spain don't believe it.

Pero es la realidad.

But it's the reality.

I remember when I was reporting in Madrid, I talked to a woman.

She must have been in her seventies.

She told me her father was taken from their house in 1938 and she never saw him again.

She spent her entire adult life trying to find his body.

Her entire life.

And when she told me this, she wasn't angry.

She was just tired.

Eso es lo que muchas familias sienten.

That's what many families feel.

Cansancio.

Weariness.

Porque durante años, cuando pedían información, el gobierno decía: no es el momento.

Because for years, when they asked for information, the government said: it's not the time.

Pero, ¿cuándo es el momento?

But when is the time?

En 2007, el gobierno de Zapatero aprobó la Ley de Memoria Histórica.

In 2007, Zapatero's government passed the Historical Memory Law.

Fue un primer paso.

It was a first step.

Pero para muchos, llegó demasiado tarde.

But for many, it came too late.

And even that law was controversial, right?

The political right opposed it.

There was this argument that opening the past would divide Spain again.

Which, to me, always sounded like saying: we should keep the wound closed even though it's infected.

A ver, yo entiendo los dos argumentos.

Look, I understand both arguments.

La verdad es que España hoy es un país democrático y moderno.

The truth is that Spain today is a democratic and modern country.

La Transición funcionó en muchos aspectos.

The Transition worked in many ways.

Pero también creo que un país necesita conocer su historia.

But I also believe a country needs to know its history.

No para vengarse, sino para entender quiénes somos.

Not for revenge, but to understand who we are.

No puedes construir un futuro sólido sobre un silencio.

You can't build a solid future on silence.

That's beautifully put.

And I think there's a parallel with how Americans deal with, or fail to deal with, our own difficult history.

Slavery, the treatment of indigenous peoples.

The impulse to say 'let's move on' is powerful.

But moving on without reckoning isn't moving on.

It's just avoidance.

Exacto.

Exactly.

Y hay otra cosa importante.

And there's another important thing.

Todavía hay calles en España con nombres de generales franquistas.

There are still streets in Spain named after Francoist generals.

Hasta hace poco, Franco estaba enterrado en un monumento gigante llamado el Valle de los Caídos.

Until recently, Franco was buried in a giant monument called the Valley of the Fallen.

En 2019, el gobierno movió su cuerpo de allí.

In 2019, the government moved his body from there.

Fue un momento enorme.

It was a huge moment.

Muy emocional para toda España.

Very emotional for all of Spain.

I watched that on television.

The helicopter lifting the coffin.

And the split screen was telling.

Half the country relieved, half the country furious.

In 2019.

More than eighty years after the war started.

That tells you everything about how alive this history still is.

Y sabes qué me parece interesante, Fletcher?

And you know what I find interesting, Fletcher?

Los jóvenes en España hoy quieren saber más.

Young people in Spain today want to know more.

Mis estudiantes cuando doy conferencias me hacen preguntas que sus abuelos nunca hicieron.

My students when I give lectures ask me questions their grandparents never asked.

Quieren abrir esas fosas.

They want to open those graves.

Quieren nombres.

They want names.

Quieren la verdad.

They want the truth.

La generación del silencio está terminando.

The generation of silence is ending.

That gives me hope, honestly.

Because there's something about the third generation, the grandchildren, who have enough distance to ask the hard questions but enough connection to still care deeply.

I've seen that pattern in Germany, in Argentina, in South Africa.

The grandchildren dig up what the children buried.

Mira, yo soy optimista.

Look, I'm optimistic.

En 2022, España aprobó una nueva ley, la Ley de Memoria Democrática.

In 2022, Spain passed a new law, the Democratic Memory Law.

Es más fuerte que la anterior.

It's stronger than the previous one.

Ayuda a las familias a buscar a sus desaparecidos.

It helps families search for their disappeared.

Reconoce a las víctimas.

It recognizes the victims.

No es perfecta, pero es un paso importante.

It's not perfect, but it's an important step.

Creo que España está aprendiendo, poco a poco, a hablar de su pasado.

I believe Spain is learning, little by little, to talk about its past.

And maybe that's the real lesson here.

Not just about Spain, but about all of us.

You can't legislate forgetting.

Silence doesn't heal.

It just pushes the pain underground, where it grows roots.

Octavio, thank you for this one.

I know it's personal for you, and I appreciate you sharing that.

Gracias, Fletcher.

Thank you, Fletcher.

La verdad es que estas conversaciones son necesarias.

The truth is these conversations are necessary.

Y para las personas que están aprendiendo español: esta historia es parte del idioma.

And for the people who are learning Spanish: this history is part of the language.

Cuando entiendes la Guerra Civil, entiendes por qué los españoles hablan como hablan, por qué discutimos tanto, y por qué la memoria importa tanto.

When you understand the Civil War, you understand why Spaniards talk the way they talk, why we argue so much, and why memory matters so much.

Hasta la próxima.

Until next time.