B1 · Intermediate
15 min
culturepoliticshistoryidentity
El pueblo del desierto: los saharauis y la lucha por sobrevivir
The Desert People: The Sahrawi and the Fight to Survive
Fletcher breaks down this story in English. Octavio reacts and expands in Spanish. Follow along with the live transcript, tap any word for its translation. Intermediate level — perfect for intermediate learners expanding their range.
So there was a small news item yesterday that I think most people scrolled past, and I almost did too.
Mali, the West African country, withdrew its diplomatic recognition of something called the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic.
And Octavio, when I saw that, I thought: this is actually a fifty-year story that most of the world has completely forgotten.
Bueno, mira, tienes razón.
Look, you're right.
Es una noticia pequeña, pero detrás de ella hay una historia muy grande.
It's a small piece of news, but behind it there is a very big story.
Los saharauis son un pueblo del desierto, del Sahara Occidental, y llevan casi cincuenta años esperando un país que todavía no existe.
The Sahrawi are a desert people, from Western Sahara, and they have been waiting for almost fifty years for a country that still does not exist.
Right.
So let's set the scene.
Western Sahara.
A territory on the northwest coast of Africa, south of Morocco, north of Mauritania, with the Atlantic on one side and a whole lot of sand on the other.
It was a Spanish colony called Spanish Sahara until 1975.
Sí, y cuando España salió, Marruecos entró.
Yes, and when Spain left, Morocco entered.
El rey Hassan II organizó algo que se llama la Marcha Verde.
King Hassan II organized something called the Green March.
En octubre de 1975, trescientas cincuenta mil personas marcharon al Sahara Occidental con banderas marroquíes.
In October 1975, three hundred and fifty thousand people marched into Western Sahara carrying Moroccan flags.
Fue un momento histórico muy importante.
It was a very important historical moment.
I covered the anniversary of the Green March once, years ago, and what struck me was how differently it was remembered depending on which side of the border you were standing on.
For Morocco, it's a moment of national pride, almost sacred.
For the Sahrawi, it's the day everything ended.
Es que así es la historia, Fletcher.
That's how history is, Fletcher.
Depende de quién la cuenta.
It depends on who is telling it.
Los saharauis tienen su propia versión, y es una versión de pérdida.
The Sahrawi have their own version, and it is a version of loss.
Perdieron su tierra, perdieron sus casas, y muchos tuvieron que salir corriendo al desierto de Argelia.
They lost their land, their homes, and many had to flee into the Algerian desert.
And that's where it gets extraordinary, because they didn't just flee.
They built something.
In the Algerian desert, near a town called Tindouf, the Sahrawi established refugee camps.
And these aren't temporary camps.
People have been living there for nearly fifty years.
An entire culture, preserved in the sand.
Bueno, los campamentos de Tinduf son fascinantes.
The Tindouf camps are fascinating.
Hay escuelas, hospitales, bibliotecas.
There are schools, hospitals, libraries.
Los saharauis construyeron una sociedad pequeña en el desierto.
The Sahrawi built a small society in the desert.
Y tienen una organización política, el Frente Polisario, que dice que es el gobierno legítimo del pueblo saharaui.
And they have a political organization, the Polisario Front, which says it is the legitimate government of the Sahrawi people.
Here's what gets me, though.
When we talk about culture surviving in exile, we usually mean language, food, music, stories.
And the Sahrawi have all of that.
But they also built actual institutions.
Schools where children learn Hassaniya Arabic, their dialect.
A radio station.
A film festival, of all things.
A ver, el festival de cine se llama FiSahara.
The film festival is called FiSahara.
Llevan muchos años organizándolo en los campamentos.
They have been organizing it in the camps for many years.
Vienen directores de todo el mundo.
Directors come from all over the world.
Es una cosa increíble: un festival de cine internacional en medio del desierto, donde la gente vive en tiendas.
It is an incredible thing: an international film festival in the middle of the desert, where people live in tents.
Which is, I mean, that is a remarkable act of cultural defiance.
You're saying: we exist.
We have stories worth telling.
Come and watch them with us.
Exactamente.
Exactly.
Y la cultura saharaui es muy rica.
And Sahrawi culture is very rich.
Son un pueblo nómada, beréber y árabe.
They are a nomadic people, Berber and Arab.
Tienen una tradición de poesía oral muy fuerte.
They have a very strong tradition of oral poetry.
Los poetas saharauis son muy importantes en su sociedad, más que en muchas otras culturas del mundo.
Sahrawi poets are very important in their society, more than in many other cultures in the world.
The oral poetry tradition, that's something I want to pull on a bit.
Because for a nomadic people, oral culture isn't just art.
It's memory.
It's law.
It's history.
When you don't have a fixed place, the poem becomes the home.
Sí, eso es muy bonito, Fletcher.
Yes, that is very well put, Fletcher.
Y también tienen la música.
They also have music.
La música saharaui es diferente a la música del norte de África.
Sahrawi music is different from North African music.
Tiene ritmos muy especiales, influencias del África subsahariana.
It has very special rhythms, influences from sub-Saharan Africa.
Cuando escuchas música saharaui, sabes que es saharaui.
When you hear Sahrawi music, you know it is Sahrawi.
And then there's the tea ritual.
I read about this.
The Sahrawi tea ceremony, three glasses of tea, each one different, each one meaning something.
It's one of those cultural practices that becomes a way of marking who you are.
La verdad es que el té es muy importante en toda la cultura del Sahara.
Tea is very important in all Saharan culture.
El primer vaso es fuerte como la vida, el segundo es dulce como el amor, el tercero es suave como la muerte.
The first glass is strong like life, the second is sweet like love, the third is gentle like death.
Es una filosofía completa en tres vasos de té.
It is a complete philosophy in three glasses of tea.
Strong as life, sweet as love, gentle as death.
Look, that's extraordinary.
And now tell me about Mali, because that's the news that brought us here today.
Bueno, Mali fue uno de los países africanos que reconocía la República Árabe Saharaui Democrática, el estado que proclamó el Frente Polisario en 1976.
Mali was one of the African countries that recognized the Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic, the state proclaimed by the Polisario Front in 1976.
Pero ayer, el gobierno de Mali dijo que ya no reconoce ese estado y que apoya el plan de autonomía de Marruecos.
But yesterday, the government of Mali said it no longer recognizes that state and supports Morocco's autonomy plan.
So Mali switches sides, essentially.
And the timing matters here.
Mali has been going through its own political crisis, military coups, a government that's been drifting away from France and toward Russia.
This isn't a random diplomatic move.
Exactamente.
Exactly.
Mali necesita amigos, y Marruecos es un país muy activo en la diplomacia africana.
Mali needs friends, and Morocco is very active in African diplomacy.
Marruecos tiene dinero, tiene influencia, y lleva muchos años trabajando para conseguir apoyo en el continente africano para su posición sobre el Sahara Occidental.
Morocco has money, has influence, and has been working for many years to build support on the African continent for its position on Western Sahara.
Morocco's autonomy proposal, for listeners who don't know it: Morocco says Western Sahara can have its own government, its own parliament, control over many of its affairs, but within Moroccan sovereignty.
Not independence.
The Polisario Front says that's not enough.
They want a referendum.
Sí, y ese referéndum fue prometido en 1991, cuando hubo un alto el fuego.
And that referendum was promised in 1991, when there was a ceasefire.
La ONU dijo que iba a organizar un referéndum para que el pueblo saharaui decidiera su futuro.
The UN said it would organize a referendum so the Sahrawi people could decide their future.
Pero ese referéndum nunca ocurrió.
But that referendum never happened.
Treinta y cinco años después, todavía esperan.
Thirty-five years later, they are still waiting.
A promised referendum that never came.
I mean, that pattern repeats itself so often in post-colonial history it's almost a cliché.
Except it isn't a cliché for the people waiting.
No, no es un cliché.
No, it is not a cliché.
Es la vida real de ciento setenta mil personas que viven en el desierto.
It is the real life of one hundred and seventy thousand people who live in the desert.
Muchos de ellos nacieron en los campamentos.
Many of them were born in the camps.
Nunca vieron el Sahara Occidental.
They have never seen Western Sahara.
Solo conocen el desierto de Argelia.
They only know the Algerian desert.
That's the thing that I keep coming back to.
The second and third generation.
Children born in exile who have never seen the land their parents and grandparents describe.
And yet they grow up with this identity, this sense of belonging to a place they've never been.
Es que eso es muy humano, Fletcher.
That is very human, Fletcher.
Los palestinos tienen la misma experiencia.
The Palestinians have the same experience.
Los armenios también.
The Armenians too.
Una identidad que se transmite de padres a hijos, aunque la tierra original ya no es accesible.
An identity passed from parents to children, even when the original land is no longer accessible.
La cultura es la forma de mantener vivo ese vínculo.
Culture is the way of keeping that connection alive.
No, you're absolutely right about that.
And it raises a question that I find genuinely hard to answer: can a culture survive without a state?
The Sahrawi have been stateless for fifty years and the culture is still there.
What does that tell us?
Mira, la historia dice que sí.
History says yes.
El pueblo judío vivió sin un estado durante dos mil años y conservó su cultura, su idioma, su religión.
The Jewish people lived without a state for two thousand years and preserved their culture, language, and religion.
Los kurdos todavía no tienen un estado y tienen una cultura muy fuerte.
The Kurds still have no state and have a very strong culture.
Pero es muy difícil.
But it is very difficult.
Y con el tiempo, las cosas cambian.
And with time, things change.
Things change.
And that's the risk, isn't it.
The third generation in Tindouf grows up watching satellite television, using the internet, listening to music from Dakar and Cairo and Madrid.
How do you hold onto something when the world is constantly offering you other identities?
A ver, esa es la pregunta más importante.
That is the most important question.
Y los saharauis lo saben.
And the Sahrawi know it.
Por eso el festival de cine, por eso las escuelas, por eso la poesía.
That is why the film festival, the schools, the poetry.
No es solo arte, es una estrategia de supervivencia cultural.
It is not just art;
Si pierdes tu cultura, pierdes el argumento para tener un estado.
it is a strategy for cultural survival.
Culture as a legal argument.
I'd never quite thought of it that way but that's exactly right.
Under international law, self-determination is tied to the existence of a distinct people.
If you can prove you're a distinct people with a distinct culture, you have a claim.
Exactamente.
Exactly.
Y Marruecos lo sabe también.
And Morocco knows it too.
Por eso Marruecos trabaja para mostrar que el Sahara Occidental es parte de la historia y la cultura marroquí.
That is why Morocco works to show that Western Sahara is part of Moroccan history and culture.
Hay un conflicto de narrativas, no solo un conflicto territorial.
There is a conflict of narratives, not just a territorial conflict.
A conflict of narratives.
So tell me how Morocco tells the story, because I think listeners need to understand there are two genuinely competing versions here, and neither one is simply propaganda.
Bueno, Marruecos dice que el Sahara Occidental fue parte del reino marroquí durante siglos, antes de la colonización española.
Morocco says Western Sahara was part of the Moroccan kingdom for centuries, before Spanish colonization.
Dice que las tribus del Sahara tenían vínculos históricos con el sultanato de Marruecos.
It says the Saharan tribes had historical ties to the Moroccan sultanate.
Y dice que su plan de autonomía es generoso y moderno.
And it says its autonomy plan is generous and modern.
And the Polisario's counter-argument is that those tribal ties were not the same as modern statehood, and that the people living there in 1975 had a right to decide their own future.
Which is why that referendum question keeps coming back.
Sí, y la Corte Internacional de Justicia dijo en 1975 que existían vínculos históricos entre las tribus del Sahara y Marruecos, pero que eso no eliminaba el derecho a la autodeterminación.
And the International Court of Justice said in 1975 that historical ties existed between the Saharan tribes and Morocco, but that this did not eliminate the right to self-determination.
Así que los dos lados usan el mismo documento para decir cosas diferentes.
So both sides use the same document to say different things.
That is such a perfect description of how international law actually works in practice.
The document says one thing, everyone reads a different sentence and declares victory.
Right, so back to Mali.
What does this diplomatic shift actually change on the ground?
La verdad es que en el terreno, no cambia mucho directamente.
On the ground, it does not change much directly.
Pero es importante simbólicamente.
But it is symbolically important.
Marruecos lleva años ganando apoyo en África.
Morocco has been gaining support in Africa for years.
Muchos países africanos que antes apoyaban al Frente Polisario ahora apoyan a Marruecos, o simplemente se quedan en silencio.
Many African countries that once supported the Polisario Front now support Morocco, or simply stay silent.
The slow erosion of diplomatic support.
And for the Sahrawi, I imagine every country that switches sides feels like another small defeat.
Because diplomacy is the only arena they have left.
They don't have an army anymore.
They lost the military option decades ago.
Sí.
The Polisario Front had an armed conflict with Morocco until 1991.
El Frente Polisario tuvo un conflicto armado con Marruecos hasta 1991.
But since the ceasefire, the struggle is diplomatic and cultural.
Pero desde el alto el fuego, la lucha es diplomática y cultural.
And in that sense, culture becomes the most important weapon they have.
Y en ese sentido, la cultura se convierte en el arma más importante que tienen.
Culture as a weapon.
Not metaphorically.
Actually.
And here's what I keep thinking about: what happens to the generation that grows up in the camps and doesn't want to wait anymore?
The grandchildren of the people who fled in 1975 are adults now.
What do they want?
Mira, algunos jóvenes saharauis estudian en el exterior, en España, en Cuba, en Algeria.
Some young Sahrawi study abroad, in Spain, in Cuba, in Algeria.
Muchos volvieron a los campamentos con títulos universitarios.
Many return to the camps with university degrees.
Y hay frustración.
And there is frustration.
Cincuenta años es mucho tiempo para esperar una solución política que no llega.
Fifty years is a long time to wait for a political solution that never comes.
Frustration is probably putting it mildly.
And look, I'll be honest: I don't know how this ends.
I'm not sure anyone does.
But what I do know is that the news from Mali yesterday isn't just a diplomatic footnote.
It's another chapter in a story about whether a people can survive without a country.
Bueno, y por eso es una historia de cultura, no solo de política.
And that is why it is a story about culture, not just politics.
La cultura saharaui sobrevivió cincuenta años en el desierto.
Sahrawi culture survived fifty years in the desert.
Eso es notable.
That is remarkable.
Pero la pregunta es: ¿puede sobrevivir cincuenta años más?
But the question is: can it survive fifty more?
A ver, nadie sabe la respuesta.
Nobody knows the answer.
Nobody knows.
And maybe that uncertainty is the most honest place to end.
A people who carry their home in their poetry, their music, and three glasses of tea.
Octavio, I learned a lot today, and I didn't mess up any Spanish, which feels like a personal victory.
La verdad es que hoy no dijiste nada en español, Fletcher.
The truth is you didn't say anything in Spanish today, Fletcher.
Así que no puedes cometer errores.
So you cannot make mistakes.
Pero mañana te pregunto cómo se dice 'avergonzado' y vemos qué pasa.
But tomorrow I will ask you how to say 'embarrassed' and we will see what happens.
[laughs]
[laughs]