Fletcher breaks down this story in English. Octavio reacts and expands in Spanish. Follow along with the live transcript, tap any word for its translation. Intermediate level — perfect for intermediate learners expanding their range.
So here's the thing.
There's a fortress on a mountain in the Caribbean that almost nobody outside of Haiti can find on a map.
And last week, at least thirty people died there in a stampede.
Bueno, la Ciudadela Laferrière.
Well, the Citadelle Laferrière.
Es un lugar increíble.
It's an incredible place.
Es enorme, está en la cima de una montaña, y tiene una historia que muy poca gente conoce fuera del Caribe.
It's enormous, it sits at the top of a mountain, and it has a history that very few people know outside the Caribbean.
I've been to Haiti twice.
Once before the 2010 earthquake, once after.
And the Citadelle was, both times, the one place that made me stop and genuinely not know what to say.
Mira, yo también la visité, hace muchos años.
Look, I visited it too, many years ago.
Subí la montaña a caballo.
I rode a horse up the mountain.
Cuando llegué arriba y vi la ciudadela por primera vez, pensé: esto no puede existir.
When I got to the top and saw the citadel for the first time, I thought: this can't exist.
Es demasiado grande, demasiado dramático.
It's too large, too dramatic.
Right, so, let's start with what we know about what happened.
A stampede at the Citadelle, in the Nord department of Haiti, at least thirty people killed.
The death toll was expected to rise.
And we don't yet have full details of why the stampede started.
Es que hay que entender el contexto.
The thing is, you have to understand the context.
La Ciudadela es un sitio de peregrinación, especialmente en Semana Santa.
The Citadelle is a pilgrimage site, especially at Easter.
Muchas personas van allí para celebrar, para rezar, para estar juntos.
Many people go there to celebrate, to pray, to be together.
Es un lugar con mucho significado espiritual y cultural.
It is a place with great spiritual and cultural meaning.
Which makes the tragedy even harder to process, I think.
These were people making a journey that Haitians have made for generations.
A sacred journey, really.
Sí.
Yes.
Y el acceso es muy difícil.
And the access is very difficult.
El camino para llegar a la Ciudadela es estrecho y tiene muchas personas en los días festivos.
The path to get to the Citadelle is narrow and has many people on holidays.
Una estampida en un lugar así es muy peligrosa.
A stampede in a place like that is very dangerous.
The extraordinary thing is that the Citadelle sits at roughly nine hundred meters above sea level.
The path up is steep, it's partially on horseback, partially on foot.
There's no easy exit.
Bueno, y también hay que decir que Haití tiene muchos problemas de infraestructura.
Well, and one must also say that Haiti has many infrastructure problems.
No hay muchos recursos para organizar grandes eventos de forma segura.
There are not many resources to organize large events safely.
Esto no es una excusa, pero es la realidad.
This is not an excuse, but it is the reality.
No, you're absolutely right about that.
And it raises a question we'll come back to: what does it mean to be a traveler, or a pilgrim, in one of the most troubled countries on earth?
Pero primero tenemos que hablar de la historia de la Ciudadela.
But first we have to talk about the history of the Citadelle.
Porque si no entiendes la historia, no puedes entender por qué este lugar es tan importante para los haitianos.
Because if you don't understand the history, you can't understand why this place is so important for Haitians.
Please.
Take me back.
Because this fortress was built in, what, the early 1800s, right after the Haitian revolution, and it is genuinely one of the most ambitious construction projects in the history of the western hemisphere.
Exacto.
Exactly.
La construcción empezó en 1807.
Construction started in 1807.
El hombre que la ordenó construir fue Henri Christophe.
The man who ordered it built was Henri Christophe.
Era un líder militar, un héroe de la revolución haitiana.
He was a military leader, a hero of the Haitian revolution.
Después, se convirtió en el rey del norte de Haití.
Later, he became the king of northern Haiti.
Henri Christophe, who had been born enslaved, who fought in the revolution, and who then built a fortress so massive it could hold five thousand troops and supplies for an entire year.
It was a statement.
To France, to the world.
La verdad es que el mensaje era muy claro: nunca más.
The truth is that the message was very clear: never again.
Los haitianos habían ganado su libertad en 1804 y no querían perderla.
Haitians had won their freedom in 1804 and did not want to lose it.
La Ciudadela era una defensa contra el regreso de los franceses o de cualquier otro poder colonial.
The Citadelle was a defense against the return of the French or any other colonial power.
And here's what makes it truly extraordinary in context.
Haiti in 1804 was the only successful slave revolution in human history.
The only one.
The enslaved people of Saint-Domingue defeated Napoleon's army.
Sí, y eso fue un momento radical en la historia del mundo.
Yes, and that was a radical moment in the history of the world.
Napoleón quería recuperar Haití porque era una colonia muy rica, con mucho azúcar y café.
Napoleon wanted to recover Haiti because it was a very rich colony, with lots of sugar and coffee.
Pero los haitianos ganaron, y eso cambió todo.
But the Haitians won, and that changed everything.
I mean, it's one of the most consequential military events of the 19th century.
Napoleon's defeat in Haiti was part of why he sold Louisiana to the United States.
My country got a third of its territory partly because Haitian freedom fighters broke his ambitions in the Americas.
Y sin embargo, Haití pagó un precio horrible por esa libertad.
And yet, Haiti paid a horrible price for that freedom.
Francia exigió una compensación económica enorme, lo que llamaron la deuda de la independencia.
France demanded an enormous financial compensation, what they called the debt of independence.
Haití pagó esa deuda durante más de 120 años.
Haiti paid that debt for more than 120 years.
One hundred and twenty-two million gold francs, essentially paid to French slaveholders as compensation for losing their, and I have to say this word carefully, their property.
Which included the people who had just freed themselves.
It is one of the great financial crimes in history.
Bueno, y ese contexto es importante para entender el presente.
Well, and that context is important for understanding the present.
Haití no es pobre por accidente.
Haiti is not poor by accident.
Hay una razón histórica.
There is a historical reason.
La Ciudadela es un símbolo de la dignidad que tenían antes de esa deuda.
The Citadelle is a symbol of the dignity they had before that debt.
So when you stand inside the Citadelle, you're not just looking at old stones.
You're standing in the middle of a story about freedom, about pride, about what happens when the world punishes you for winning.
Exactamente.
Exactly.
Y por eso los haitianos van allí.
And that's why Haitians go there.
No solo los turistas.
Not just tourists.
Los haitianos mismos van a la Ciudadela porque es su historia, su identidad.
Haitians themselves go to the Citadelle because it is their history, their identity.
Es un lugar de orgullo nacional.
It is a place of national pride.
The Citadelle and the nearby Sans-Souci Palace, which Henri Christophe also built, have been a UNESCO World Heritage Site since 1982.
They are, and I don't use this word lightly, irreplaceable.
A ver, el Palacio Sans-Souci también es extraordinario.
Well, the Sans-Souci Palace is also extraordinary.
Antes del terremoto de 1842, era un palacio muy elegante, comparable con los grandes palacios de Europa.
Before the 1842 earthquake, it was a very elegant palace, comparable to the great palaces of Europe.
Ahora están las ruinas, pero todavía impresionan mucho.
Now there are ruins, but they are still very impressive.
Right, and this is what gets me about Haiti as a travel destination.
Because before the 2010 earthquake, before the gang crisis, before everything that has compounded disaster upon disaster, there was a real tourism industry there, or at least the beginning of one.
Sí.
Yes.
En los años 70 y 80, Haití tenía turismo.
In the 70s and 80s, Haiti had tourism.
Los hoteles estaban llenos, los artistas haitianos eran famosos, la gente viajaba allí desde Europa y América.
The hotels were full, Haitian artists were famous, people traveled there from Europe and the Americas.
Pero después vinieron muchos problemas, y el turismo desapareció casi completamente.
But then many problems came, and tourism almost completely disappeared.
I was there in 2007 and even then you could see the bones of what it could have been.
Beautiful coastline.
The art scene in Port-au-Prince was extraordinary.
The food was remarkable.
And the Citadelle, just, nothing prepares you for the Citadelle.
Mira, es que la comida haitiana es muy buena y muy poco conocida.
Look, Haitian food is very good and very little known.
El griot, que es cerdo frito con pimientos.
Griot, which is fried pork with peppers.
El riz collé, el arroz con judías.
Riz collé, rice with beans.
Es una cocina rica, con influencias africanas, francesas y caribeñas.
It is a rich cuisine, with African, French, and Caribbean influences.
Look, I know you will defend any cuisine that has enough history behind it, Octavio, even from outside Spain.
But yes, the food was genuinely extraordinary.
The point is, Haiti had all the ingredients for a remarkable travel destination and couldn't catch a break.
La verdad es que Haití es un ejemplo muy triste de lo que puede pasar cuando un país no tiene estabilidad política ni recursos económicos.
The truth is that Haiti is a very sad example of what can happen when a country has no political stability or economic resources.
El turismo necesita seguridad, necesita infraestructura, necesita tiempo.
Tourism needs security, needs infrastructure, needs time.
The gang crisis in particular has been devastating for the past few years.
By some estimates, gangs now control more than eighty percent of Port-au-Prince.
And yet, in the north, near Cap-Haïtien, near the Citadelle, it's a different picture.
Sí, el norte es más tranquilo.
Yes, the north is calmer.
Cap-Haïtien es una ciudad histórica, con arquitectura colonial francesa muy bonita.
Cap-Haïtien is a historic city, with very beautiful French colonial architecture.
Algunos turistas todavía van allí, principalmente para ver la Ciudadela.
Some tourists still go there, mainly to see the Citadelle.
Pero es difícil llegar porque los vuelos son complicados.
But it is hard to get there because flights are complicated.
And this brings us back to the question I want to push on.
Should people travel to places like Haiti?
And I'm not asking it in a naive way, I've filed stories from Kabul, from Baghdad, I know the arguments.
But specifically as a traveler, not a journalist.
Bueno, es una pregunta complicada.
Well, it's a complicated question.
Por una parte, el turismo puede dar dinero a la gente local, puede ayudar a la economía.
On one hand, tourism can give money to local people, can help the economy.
Por otra parte, si un lugar es muy peligroso, el turista también es un problema porque necesita protección y recursos.
On the other hand, if a place is very dangerous, the tourist is also a problem because they need protection and resources.
There's also something uncomfortable about the idea of visiting poverty as an experience.
I've had this argument with myself in a lot of places.
You can dress it up as cultural curiosity, but there's a real ethical question underneath.
Es que yo creo que la diferencia es cómo viajas.
I think the difference is how you travel.
Si vas a Haití y compras artesanía local, comes en restaurantes locales, contratas guías haitianos, eso ayuda.
If you go to Haiti and buy local crafts, eat at local restaurants, hire Haitian guides, that helps.
Si solo haces fotos de la pobreza y te vas, eso no ayuda a nadie.
If you only take photos of the poverty and leave, that helps nobody.
That's a fair distinction.
And the Citadelle specifically is interesting because it draws Haitian visitors, pilgrims, just as much as foreign tourists.
It's not a place that exists for the outside world's consumption.
Mira, eso es muy importante.
Look, that is very important.
La Ciudadela es de los haitianos.
The Citadelle belongs to Haitians.
Cuando hay una tragedia allí, como esta estampida, el dolor es haitiano.
When there is a tragedy there, like this stampede, the pain is Haitian.
El duelo es haitiano.
The grief is Haitian.
Nosotros, desde fuera, debemos respetar eso.
We, from the outside, must respect that.
So what does this moment tell us about the state of travel in places that are struggling?
Because Haiti is not unique.
There are dozens of countries with extraordinary history, extraordinary culture, extraordinary landscapes, that the world has essentially decided are off-limits.
A ver, creo que el mundo necesita recordar que Haití existe y que tiene una historia extraordinaria.
Well, I think the world needs to remember that Haiti exists and has an extraordinary history.
La revolución haitiana fue un momento crucial para toda la humanidad.
The Haitian revolution was a crucial moment for all of humanity.
No podemos olvidar eso porque el país tiene problemas ahora.
We cannot forget that because the country has problems now.
The Citadelle Laferrière is still there, on its mountain.
Thirty people died there this week, going to a place that matters to them profoundly.
That's the story.
Not just tragedy, but an act of devotion to something that the rest of the world has largely forgotten.
Bueno.
Well.
Y si alguien escucha este podcast hoy y no sabía nada de la Ciudadela ni de la revolución haitiana, espero que ahora quiera aprender más.
And if someone is listening to this podcast today and knew nothing about the Citadelle or the Haitian revolution, I hope that now they want to learn more.
Ese es el primer paso.
That is the first step.
The first step, yes.
And maybe one day, when things allow, the second step is getting on a plane to Cap-Haïtien and climbing that mountain on horseback.
I can tell you from experience: it is worth every difficult meter of the way up.