Fletcher and Octavio
B1 · Intermediate 14 min politicsinternational relationswar and conflictdiplomacy

El Equipo Inesperado: Cómo Negocia Trump

The Unexpected Team: How Trump Negotiates
News from April 8, 2026 · Published April 9, 2026

Fletcher breaks down this story in English. Octavio reacts and expands in Spanish. Follow along with the live transcript, tap any word for its translation. Intermediate level — perfect for intermediate learners expanding their range.

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Fletcher
Fletcher Haines
English
Octavio
Octavio Solana
Spanish
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Full transcript
Fletcher EN

So here is a sentence I did not expect to say on this podcast.

The United States is sending its vice president, its president's son-in-law, and a former real estate developer to negotiate a potential end to a war with Iran.

In Islamabad.

On a Friday.

Octavio ES

Bueno, mira, cuando lo dices así, parece raro.

Well, look, when you put it that way, it sounds strange.

Pero para Trump, este equipo tiene mucho sentido.

But for Trump, this team makes a lot of sense.

Son personas de su confianza personal.

They are people he personally trusts.

No son diplomáticos tradicionales.

They are not traditional diplomats.

Fletcher EN

Right, and that's exactly what I want to dig into today.

JD Vance is leading the delegation, alongside Jared Kushner and special envoy Steve Witkoff.

And I think this team tells you almost everything you need to know about how Trump thinks about foreign policy.

Octavio ES

Es que Trump no confía en el sistema diplomático normal.

The thing is, Trump doesn't trust the normal diplomatic system.

Para él, los diplomáticos profesionales son parte del problema, no de la solución.

For him, professional diplomats are part of the problem, not the solution.

Prefiere personas que le son leales a él directamente.

He prefers people who are loyal to him directly.

Fletcher EN

And look, I spent years watching American foreign policy up close, in Beirut, in Jakarta, in Buenos Aires.

There was always this enormous institutional weight behind every negotiation.

The State Department, career diplomats, interagency processes.

Trump just, kind of, cuts all of that.

Octavio ES

A ver, no es completamente nuevo.

Look, it's not completely new.

Richard Nixon también usó canales privados y personas de confianza personal para negociar con China.

Richard Nixon also used private channels and personally trusted people to negotiate with China.

Pero lo que hace Trump es más extremo.

But what Trump does is more extreme.

Fletcher EN

The Nixon comparison is interesting, and we'll come back to it.

But first, let's just establish who these three men actually are, because I think some of our listeners may know the names but not quite the full picture.

Octavio ES

Bueno.

Right.

JD Vance es el vicepresidente.

JD Vance is the vice president.

Antes era senador de Ohio.

He was previously a senator from Ohio.

Escribió un libro famoso sobre la vida de las personas pobres en América.

He wrote a famous book about the lives of poor people in America.

Es joven, tiene cuarenta años, y es muy leal a Trump.

He is young, forty years old, and very loyal to Trump.

Fletcher EN

Which is a fascinating arc, because Vance was famously, and I mean very publicly, a Trump critic before he became a Trump loyalist.

The book he wrote, Hillbilly Elegy, made him a kind of liberal media favorite for a while.

Then everything changed.

Octavio ES

La verdad es que eso pasa mucho en política.

Honestly, that happens a lot in politics.

La gente cambia de posición cuando hay poder en juego.

People change their position when power is at stake.

Pero ahora Vance es el número dos de la administración.

But now Vance is the number two in the administration.

Es una señal importante que Trump lo manda a estas negociaciones.

It's an important signal that Trump is sending him to these negotiations.

Fletcher EN

A sitting vice president leading a war negotiation is, historically, pretty unusual.

Vice presidents tend to do a lot of funerals.

Important state funerals, but still.

This is something different.

Octavio ES

Sí, es una señal de que Trump quiere mostrar que este proceso es muy serio.

Yes, it's a signal that Trump wants to show that this process is very serious.

Si mandas al vicepresidente, el mundo sabe que Washington está comprometido con las negociaciones.

If you send the vice president, the world knows that Washington is committed to the negotiations.

Fletcher EN

Now, Jared Kushner.

This is where it gets genuinely complicated, because Kushner is Trump's son-in-law.

He was a senior adviser in the first Trump administration, and he was the architect of the Abraham Accords, the normalization agreements between Israel and several Arab states.

Octavio ES

Mira, los Acuerdos de Abraham fueron importantes.

Look, the Abraham Accords were important.

Muchos diplomáticos profesionales dijeron que eran imposibles.

Many professional diplomats said they were impossible.

Kushner los hizo posibles.

Kushner made them possible.

Eso le da credibilidad, aunque su método es muy poco convencional.

That gives him credibility, even if his method is very unconventional.

Fletcher EN

Here's what gets me, though.

The criticism of Kushner has always been the same: he works through back channels, he bypasses official structures, and his financial interests, he runs a private equity firm that has taken billions from Gulf states, create potential conflicts of interest that are, at minimum, uncomfortable.

Octavio ES

Es que eso es un problema serio.

That's a serious problem.

Cuando una persona negocia con países del Golfo Pérsico y también tiene negocios con esos países, es difícil saber dónde termina el interés público y dónde empieza el interés privado.

When a person negotiates with Gulf countries and also has business dealings with those countries, it's hard to know where the public interest ends and the private interest begins.

Fletcher EN

No, you're absolutely right about that.

And I want to be precise here, because it's not an accusation, it's a structural problem.

The potential for conflict is built into the situation, regardless of what anyone's actual intentions are.

Octavio ES

A ver, y Steve Witkoff, el tercer hombre.

And then there's Steve Witkoff, the third man.

Es un empresario del sector inmobiliario, como Trump.

He's a businessman from the real estate sector, like Trump.

No tiene experiencia diplomática formal.

He has no formal diplomatic experience.

Pero Trump ya lo usó como enviado especial en el primer mandato.

But Trump already used him as a special envoy in his first term.

Fletcher EN

Witkoff was involved in the Gaza ceasefire negotiations earlier in Trump's second term.

And the argument for him is basically: he's a deal-maker.

He understands how to structure agreements between parties who don't trust each other.

Which, in fairness, is actually a useful skill in diplomacy.

Octavio ES

Bueno, sí.

Well, yes.

Pero hay una diferencia entre negociar un edificio en Manhattan y negociar el fin de una guerra en Oriente Medio.

But there's a difference between negotiating a building deal in Manhattan and negotiating the end of a war in the Middle East.

Los intereses son más complejos y las consecuencias son mucho más graves.

The interests are more complex and the consequences are much more serious.

Fletcher EN

I mean, that's the tension at the heart of the Trump foreign policy model, isn't it.

The idea is that traditional diplomats are captured by process, by protocol, by their own institutional histories, and that sometimes a fresh set of eyes with no stake in the existing system can cut through all of that.

Octavio ES

La verdad es que a veces esa idea funciona.

Honestly, sometimes that idea works.

El problema es que la diplomacia también necesita continuidad.

The problem is that diplomacy also needs continuity.

Cuando cambias de presidente, los acuerdos que hiciste con personas personales del presidente anterior pueden desaparecer.

When you change presidents, the agreements you made with the previous president's personal people can disappear.

Fletcher EN

That's a really sharp point.

The institutional memory of the State Department, even when it's frustrating and slow, is precisely what gives agreements durability.

A deal made between presidents' personal friends can evaporate when the friendship evaporates.

Octavio ES

Exacto.

Exactly.

Mira el ejemplo de los Acuerdos de Abraham.

Look at the example of the Abraham Accords.

Fueron importantes, pero el conflicto entre Israel y sus vecinos no terminó.

They were important, but the conflict between Israel and its neighbors didn't end.

A veces los acuerdos de Trump son más simbólicos que permanentes.

Sometimes Trump's agreements are more symbolic than permanent.

Fletcher EN

Right, so let's talk about the location for a second, because Islamabad is not a random choice.

Pakistan has been positioning itself throughout this conflict as a mediator, and that's its own fascinating political story.

Octavio ES

Pakistán es un país interesante porque tiene relaciones con casi todos.

Pakistan is an interesting country because it has relationships with almost everyone.

Tiene buenas relaciones con Estados Unidos, con China, y también con países musulmanes.

It has good relations with the United States, with China, and also with Muslim-majority countries.

No es ni pro-americano ni anti-americano completamente.

It's not completely pro-American or anti-American.

Fletcher EN

And historically, Pakistan has hosted some of the most sensitive back-channel negotiations of the modern era.

Henry Kissinger used Islamabad as a staging post for his secret trip to Beijing in 1971, which opened China to the West.

There's something almost poetic about this happening there again.

Octavio ES

Bueno, y esa es exactamente la comparación que quiero hacer con Nixon.

Right, and that's exactly the comparison I want to make with Nixon.

Nixon usó a Kissinger, que no era un diplomático tradicional al principio, para hacer cosas que los diplomáticos profesionales decían que eran imposibles.

Nixon used Kissinger, who was not a traditional diplomat at first, to do things that professional diplomats said were impossible.

Hay un paralelo con Trump.

There's a parallel with Trump.

Fletcher EN

The difference being, and I say this with great respect for Kissinger's intellectual firepower even when I disagree profoundly with his decisions, that Kissinger was a serious strategic thinker with a historical framework.

He had a theory of international order.

The Trump team's theory seems to be: let's make a deal.

Octavio ES

Es que "hagamos un trato" puede funcionar a corto plazo.

"Let's make a deal" can work in the short term.

Pero Irán tiene intereses muy complicados: su programa nuclear, su influencia en Líbano, su relación con Rusia y China.

But Iran has very complicated interests: its nuclear program, its influence in Lebanon, its relationship with Russia and China.

Un acuerdo simple de dos semanas no resuelve esos problemas.

A simple two-week agreement doesn't resolve those problems.

Fletcher EN

And the uranium enrichment question is sitting right in the middle of all of this.

Iran's parliamentary speaker Ghalibaf cited the denial of Iran's right to enrich uranium as a reason the ceasefire was being violated.

That tells you where the real negotiating battle is going to happen.

Octavio ES

El programa nuclear iraní es el problema central.

The Iranian nuclear program is the central problem.

Irán lleva muchos años enriqueciendo uranio.

Iran has been enriching uranium for many years.

Para ellos, es un símbolo de soberanía nacional, no solo una cuestión técnica.

For them, it is a symbol of national sovereignty, not just a technical matter.

Para Estados Unidos e Israel, es una amenaza existencial.

For the United States and Israel, it is an existential threat.

Fletcher EN

The extraordinary thing is how this echoes 2015 and the JCPOA, the nuclear deal that Obama negotiated and Trump then tore up in his first term.

The argument for the deal was: verifiable limits are better than no limits.

The argument against was: any enrichment capability is unacceptable.

Neither side has moved.

Octavio ES

A ver, y ese es el problema con enviar a Vance, Kushner y Witkoff.

And that's the problem with sending Vance, Kushner and Witkoff.

Son personas que pueden cerrar un acuerdo de negocios.

They are people who can close a business deal.

Pero este problema tiene cincuenta años de historia y muchos actores.

But this problem has fifty years of history and many actors.

No es una transacción.

It is not a transaction.

Fletcher EN

Look, I've sat across from enough negotiators in enough difficult contexts to know that sometimes the person without institutional baggage can actually move things.

I'm not dismissing this team entirely.

What worries me is the absence of any visible long-term framework.

Octavio ES

La verdad es que tienes razón en eso.

Honestly, you're right about that.

Y hay otra cuestión: el Secretario de Estado, Marco Rubio, no está en este equipo.

And there's another question: Secretary of State Marco Rubio is not part of this team.

Eso nos dice que el Departamento de Estado no controla esta negociación.

That tells us the State Department is not controlling this negotiation.

El poder está en otro lugar.

Power is somewhere else.

Fletcher EN

That is a detail I find fascinating and slightly alarming.

The Secretary of State is constitutionally, institutionally, the chief diplomat of the United States.

If Vance is leading this, Rubio has been sidelined on the biggest diplomatic event of the year.

Octavio ES

Bueno, mira, en la primera administración de Trump pasó algo similar.

Well, look, something similar happened in Trump's first administration.

El Secretario de Estado Rex Tillerson tampoco tenía mucho poder real.

Secretary of State Rex Tillerson also didn't have much real power.

Trump prefería hablar directamente con los líderes extranjeros por teléfono, sin preparación formal.

Trump preferred to talk directly with foreign leaders by phone, without formal preparation.

Fletcher EN

And Tillerson was famously reported to have called Trump a moron, which tells you how that relationship ended.

The question is whether, structurally, the United States can sustain a foreign policy that operates through a president's personal network rather than its professional institutions.

Octavio ES

Es que el mundo también tiene que adaptarse a este estilo.

The world also has to adapt to this style.

Otros países aprenden que para hablar con Washington, no es necesario hablar con el Departamento de Estado.

Other countries learn that to talk to Washington, you don't need to talk to the State Department.

Tienes que hablar con las personas cercanas a Trump.

You have to talk to the people close to Trump.

Fletcher EN

Which creates its own distortions, right.

Some governments are better positioned for that kind of relationship-based access than others.

It tends to favor authoritarian leaders who can make personal commitments without domestic constraints, and disadvantage democracies where foreign policy requires broader consensus.

Octavio ES

Sí, es un punto muy importante.

Yes, that's a very important point.

Y también debemos mencionar que estas negociaciones empiezan mientras Israel todavía bombardea Líbano.

And we should also mention that these negotiations start while Israel is still bombing Lebanon.

Eso hace la situación muy inestable para cualquier equipo negociador.

That makes the situation very unstable for any negotiating team.

Fletcher EN

So here's where we land, I think.

The team going to Islamabad is unconventional by any historical measure.

That's not automatically bad.

But the challenges they face, the nuclear question, the Lebanon question, Iran's domestic politics, the Gulf states' competing interests, those are not problems that yield to deal-making logic alone.

Octavio ES

A ver, para terminar: lo que vemos en Islamabad es el estilo Trump aplicado al problema más difícil del mundo en este momento.

Look, to finish: what we're seeing in Islamabad is the Trump style applied to the hardest problem in the world right now.

Puede funcionar a corto plazo.

It might work in the short term.

Pero sin una estrategia clara a largo plazo, los problemas van a volver.

But without a clear long-term strategy, the problems are going to come back.

Fletcher EN

And that's the history of the Middle East in a sentence, really.

Every few years, someone announces a deal, the world exhales, and then the underlying tensions reassert themselves because they were never fully addressed.

I hope this time is different.

I genuinely do.

But hope is not a strategy.

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