The Venice Biennale's international jury resigned en masse before the exhibition opened, protesting the Meloni government's decision to allow Russia to participate. Fletcher and Octavio debate whether art can, or should, be separated from politics, and what this crisis means for European culture.
El jurado de la Bienal de Venecia dimitió en masa antes de la apertura de la exposición, en protesta por la decisión del gobierno de Meloni de permitir la participación de Rusia. Fletcher y Octavio debaten si el arte puede y debe separarse de la política, y qué significa esta crisis para la cultura europea.
7 essential B1-level terms from this episode, with translations and example sentences in Spanish.
| Spanish | English | Example |
|---|---|---|
| dimitir | to resign (from a formal position) | El ministro decidió dimitir después del escándalo. |
| el pabellón | pavilion | Cada país tiene su propio pabellón en la Bienal de Venecia. |
| el jurado | jury, panel of judges | El jurado eligió al mejor artista de la exposición. |
| la credibilidad | credibility | La institución perdió mucha credibilidad después de esa decisión. |
| la participación | participation | La participación de Rusia en el evento fue muy polémica. |
| el patrimonio | heritage, patrimony | Italia tiene un patrimonio cultural muy rico e importante. |
| normalizar | to normalize | Mucha gente no quiere normalizar la situación actual. |
The entire jury of the Venice Biennale walked out this week.
Not one or two members with a disagreement.
All of them.
Before the thing even opened.
Sí, y la razón es importante.
Yes, and the reason matters.
El gobierno italiano quiere permitir que Rusia participe en la Bienal este año.
The Italian government wants to allow Russia to participate in the Biennale this year.
El jurado dijo que no era posible aceptar eso, y todos dimitieron.
The jury said they couldn't accept that, and they all resigned.
Before we get into the politics, I want to make sure listeners understand what the Venice Biennale actually is.
Because if you haven't encountered it, the name alone doesn't quite capture the scale of the thing.
La Bienal de Venecia es una de las exposiciones de arte más importantes del mundo.
The Venice Biennale is one of the most important art exhibitions in the world.
Empezó en 1895.
It started in 1895.
Cada dos años, muchos países presentan su arte en pabellones nacionales.
Every two years, many countries present their art in national pavilions.
Es como los Juegos Olímpicos del arte contemporáneo.
It's like the Olympics of contemporary art.
And Russia has a pavilion there.
A permanent structure, inside the Giardini, that they've had since the early twentieth century.
It's not a visiting participant.
They're a fixture.
Exacto.
Exactly.
Rusia tiene uno de los pabellones más antiguos de la Bienal.
Russia has one of the oldest pavilions at the Biennale.
Pero en 2022, después de la invasión de Ucrania, los artistas rusos decidieron no participar.
But in 2022, after the invasion of Ukraine, the Russian artists themselves decided not to participate.
Fue una protesta voluntaria.
It was a voluntary protest.
That's the part that tends to get lost in the current story.
In 2022, Russian artists made the choice themselves.
They pulled out.
The curators released a statement saying the war made participation impossible.
This time, the dynamic is reversed.
Sí, ahora el gobierno italiano quiere invitar a Rusia a volver.
Yes, now the Italian government wants to invite Russia back.
Y el jurado internacional no estaba de acuerdo con esa decisión.
And the international jury disagreed with that decision.
Por eso dimitieron todos, antes de la apertura.
That's why they all resigned, before the opening.
The Meloni government.
And it's worth pausing on that, because Italy under Meloni has taken some positions on Russia that are genuinely complicated.
She's kept Italy inside the EU's Ukraine support framework, but there's a faction in her coalition that's always been warmer toward Moscow.
Sí, es verdad.
Yes, that's true.
Y este asunto de la Bienal refleja esa tensión.
And this Biennale affair reflects that tension.
El gobierno dice que el arte y la política son cosas diferentes.
The government says art and politics are different things.
Pero muchas personas no aceptan esa idea, especialmente cuando la guerra en Ucrania todavía continúa.
But many people don't accept that idea, especially when the war in Ukraine is still ongoing.
Do you buy the argument?
That you can separate the two?
I've been going back and forth on this all week.
No, la verdad es que no.
No, honestly not.
Cuando el Estado financia el pabellón y decide quién representa al país, no es solo arte.
When the state funds the pavilion and decides who represents the country, it's not just art.
Es una declaración política.
It's a political statement.
Siempre fue así.
It always was.
The history supports that completely.
The Biennale was used as a propaganda tool by Mussolini's government in the 1930s.
The Nazis used their pavilion to promote an idea of German civilization.
These national pavilions were never neutral spaces.
Exactamente.
Exactly.
Y por eso la decisión del jurado es tan significativa.
And that's why the jury's decision is so significant.
Ellos no quisieron ser parte de una situación que, para ellos, normalizaba algo que no debemos normalizar.
They didn't want to be part of a situation that, in their view, normalized something that shouldn't be normalized.
There's a word for this in diplomatic circles: normalization.
And it's loaded.
Once you let Russia back into a major international cultural event while the war continues, you've said something without saying it.
Claro.
Exactly.
Es como decir que la situación es normal, que el mundo puede continuar como antes.
It's like saying the situation is normal, that the world can continue as before.
Y para Ucrania, y para muchos países europeos, eso es inaceptable.
And for Ukraine, and for many European countries, that is unacceptable.
Now here's where I want to push back a little, though.
Because there's a version of this argument I find less convincing.
The idea that any Russian artist who participates is automatically complicit in Putin's war.
Es una pregunta difícil.
It's a difficult question.
Muchos artistas rusos viven fuera de Rusia porque no apoyan al gobierno.
Many Russian artists live outside Russia because they don't support the government.
Algunos están en el exilio.
Some are in exile.
Pero cuando el Estado paga y el Estado elige, la situación es muy complicada.
But when the state pays and the state chooses, the situation is very complicated.
I covered something adjacent to this in the nineties, during the Yugoslav wars.
There were Serbian musicians, writers, filmmakers who were loudly opposed to Milosevic.
And the question of whether to include or exclude Serbian culture from international events tore institutions apart.
Y no hay una respuesta perfecta.
And there's no perfect answer.
Pero creo que en este momento, con la guerra activa, la decisión de incluir a Rusia envía un mensaje equivocado.
But I think right now, with an active war, the decision to include Russia sends the wrong message.
El momento importa mucho.
The timing matters a great deal.
Fair point.
Can I ask you something about the Ukrainian pavilion, though?
Because that story in 2022 was remarkable.
They kept their pavilion open but used it to document the destruction.
It became something else entirely.
Sí.
Yes.
En 2022 el pabellón ucraniano fue muy emotivo.
In 2022 the Ukrainian pavilion was very moving.
Los artistas ucranianos decidieron mostrar el impacto de la guerra en su cultura, en sus ciudades, en su gente.
Ukrainian artists decided to show the impact of the war on their culture, their cities, their people.
Fue arte y testimonio al mismo tiempo.
It was art and testimony at the same time.
And that's the thing about the Biennale at its best.
It absorbs the world.
It doesn't pretend the world outside the lagoon doesn't exist.
The question now is whether allowing Russia back in is the Biennale engaging with reality, or retreating from it.
Para mí, es una retirada.
For me, it's a retreat.
Incluir a Rusia ahora, sin condiciones, no es diálogo cultural.
Including Russia now, without conditions, isn't cultural dialogue.
Es ignorar el contexto.
It's ignoring context.
Y el arte sin contexto pierde mucho sentido.
And art without context loses a great deal of meaning.
What's Meloni's actual argument, as far as you can reconstruct it?
What is the Italian government saying in its defense?
El gobierno dice que la Bienal es un espacio de diálogo internacional, y que excluir a un país no ayuda a encontrar la paz.
The government says the Biennale is a space for international dialogue, and that excluding a country doesn't help find peace.
También dicen que la cultura rusa no es lo mismo que el gobierno ruso.
They also say that Russian culture is not the same as the Russian government.
Pero muchas personas no aceptan esos argumentos.
But many people don't accept those arguments.
That second argument, about culture versus government, is the one I find most intellectually honest, even if I'm not sure it applies cleanly here.
Tchaikovsky didn't invade anyone.
Tolstoy didn't invade anyone.
Claro, pero Tchaikovsky no participaba en una exposición organizada y pagada por Putin.
Sure, but Tchaikovsky wasn't participating in an exhibition organized and paid for by Putin.
Esa es la diferencia.
That's the difference.
No hablamos de la cultura rusa en general.
We're not talking about Russian culture in general.
Hablamos de un pabellón del Estado ruso en 2026.
We're talking about a Russian state pavilion in 2026.
That lands.
I'll concede that.
And it connects to something broader about how cultural institutions have been used as soft power tools since at least the Cold War.
The Soviets were masters of this.
Sí, la Unión Soviética usó la cultura internacional para mostrar una imagen positiva del país.
Yes, the Soviet Union used international culture to project a positive image of the country.
Los ballets, la música, el cine.
The ballets, the music, the cinema.
Había mucho talento real, pero también era propaganda del Estado.
There was real talent, but it was also state propaganda.
Rudolf Nureyev defected from the Kirov Ballet in 1961, right in the middle of this.
At Le Bourget airport in Paris.
He just walked away from his handlers.
The Soviets were furious precisely because the cultural missions carried real weight.
Exacto, Fletcher.
Exactly, Fletcher.
La cultura no es solo entretenimiento.
Culture is not just entertainment.
Es identidad, es historia, es poder.
It's identity, history, power.
Y por eso las decisiones sobre quién puede participar en eventos culturales siempre son también decisiones políticas.
And that's why decisions about who can participate in cultural events are always political decisions too.
So where does this leave the Venice Biennale practically?
The jury is gone.
The exhibition opens in a matter of days.
What actually happens now?
La Bienal puede funcionar sin jurado internacional, pero pierde credibilidad.
The Biennale can function without an international jury, but it loses credibility.
Un evento artístico sin un jurado independiente es un evento con menos legitimidad.
An artistic event without an independent jury is an event with less legitimacy.
Es un problema serio para la organización.
It's a serious problem for the organization.
And there's a particular irony in this happening in Italy, of all places.
Because Italy has this extraordinary tradition of protecting cultural heritage, of funding the arts.
The idea that an Italian government action triggers the collapse of an international jury at the world's oldest art biennale is, well, it's something.
Sí, y también demuestra que la cultura nunca está completamente separada de la política nacional.
Yes, and it also shows that culture is never completely separate from national politics.
El gobierno de Meloni quiere usar la Bienal para enviar un mensaje.
The Meloni government wants to use the Biennale to send a message.
El jurado dijo que no quería ser parte de ese mensaje.
The jury said they didn't want to be part of that message.
I want to bring in the press freedom report that came out this same week, from Reporters Without Borders, because I think there's a thread connecting them.
Global press freedom at its lowest point since the index began in 2002.
Under one percent of the world's population living in countries with genuinely free press.
That is a staggering number.
Sí, los dos temas están conectados.
Yes, the two topics are connected.
Cuando los gobiernos controlan qué artistas pueden participar en eventos internacionales, y cuando los periodistas no pueden informar libremente, el espacio para la verdad se hace más pequeño.
When governments control which artists can participate in international events, and when journalists can't report freely, the space for truth gets smaller.
I've thought about this since losing colleagues in the field.
Not in some abstract way.
The thing that authoritarians understand, and that democracies sometimes forget, is that culture and information are the same battlefield.
Completamente de acuerdo.
Completely agree.
Y por eso la resignación del jurado de Venecia no es solo un escándalo artístico.
And that's why the resignation of the Venice jury is not just an art world scandal.
Es una señal de algo más grande.
It's a signal of something larger.
Las instituciones culturales independientes están bajo presión en todo el mundo.
Independent cultural institutions are under pressure everywhere.
What do you think the long-term effect is?
Does the Biennale recover from this?
Does this kind of controversy eventually fade, or does it redefine the institution?
La Bienal tiene ciento treinta años de historia.
The Biennale has a hundred and thirty years of history.
Sobrevivió a dos guerras mundiales y al fascismo.
It survived two world wars and fascism.
Va a sobrevivir esto también.
It will survive this too.
Pero la credibilidad es difícil de recuperar cuando el mundo está mirando.
But credibility is hard to recover when the world is watching.
Right.
And the world is watching partly because of what it represents.
If the art world can't hold a line, can't say this moment requires a different kind of response, what does that say?
Actually, wait, there's something you said earlier I want to come back to.
You used the word 'dimitieron.' All of them resigned.
'Dimitir.' That's not the verb I would have reached for.
¿Qué verbo ibas a usar tú, Fletcher?
What verb were you going to use, Fletcher?
I would have said 'renunciar.' Or honestly, knowing my track record, probably something that means they got pregnant and left.
Los dos verbos existen, pero son diferentes.
Both verbs exist, but they're different.
'Dimitir' es específico para dejar un cargo formal, como un puesto en un jurado, o un puesto político.
'Dimitir' is specific to leaving a formal position, like a place on a jury, or a political post.
'Renunciar' es más general, puedes renunciar a muchas cosas.
'Renunciar' is more general;
So 'dimitir' is the professional, institutional word.
You'd use it for a minister resigning, a CEO stepping down, a jury walking out.
'Renunciar' is broader, like giving something up in a wider sense.
Exacto.
Exactly.
Puedes renunciar a un sueño, o a una posición.
You can renounce a dream, or a position.
Pero si el primer ministro deja su cargo, la palabra correcta es 'dimitir'.
But if the prime minister leaves office, the correct word is 'dimitir'.
Es más formal, más serio.
It's more formal, more serious.
Es la palabra perfecta para este escándalo.
It's the perfect word for this scandal.
I'll add that to the list of things I've learned from you under duress.
And on that note, listeners, if the Venice Biennale taught us anything this week, it's that art is never just art, and a jury walkout is never just a walkout.
Until next time.
Hasta la próxima.
Until next time.
Y Fletcher, la próxima vez que quieras decir que estás avergonzado, recuerda: 'avergonzado', no 'embarazado'.
And Fletcher, next time you want to say you're embarrassed, remember: 'avergonzado', not 'embarazado'.
Por favor.
Please.