The Israel Defense Forces have accused Hamas of using Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis to interrogate and torture Palestinians. Fletcher and Octavio dig into what happens when a medical institution becomes a weapon, what international law actually says about it, and what remains for Gaza's civilian population when they can no longer trust their own hospitals.
Las Fuerzas de Defensa de Israel acusan a Hamás de haber utilizado el Hospital Nasser, en Jan Yunis, para interrogar y torturar a palestinos. Fletcher y Octavio examinan qué ocurre cuando una institución médica se convierte en arma, qué dice el derecho internacional al respecto y qué le queda a la población de Gaza cuando ya no puede confiar ni en sus propios hospitales.
5 essential B2-level terms from this episode, with translations and example sentences in Spanish.
| Spanish | English | Example |
|---|---|---|
| destacar | to highlight / to stand out / to emphasize | Quiero destacar que la protección de los hospitales es una norma fundamental del derecho internacional. |
| uso dual | dual use | El concepto de uso dual complica la aplicación del derecho internacional en zonas de conflicto. |
| impunidad | impunity | La impunidad ocurre cuando los responsables de crímenes graves no enfrentan ninguna consecuencia legal. |
| establecimiento médico | medical facility / medical establishment | Los Convenios de Ginebra prohíben atacar los establecimientos médicos durante un conflicto armado. |
| confianza en las instituciones | institutional trust | La confianza en las instituciones es esencial para que el sistema de salud pública funcione bien. |
There's a sentence I read yesterday that I genuinely couldn't get past: Hamas allegedly used a hospital to torture Palestinians.
Not Israelis.
Palestinians.
Sí, es una acusación muy grave.
Yes, it's a very serious accusation.
Las Fuerzas de Defensa de Israel dicen que el Hospital Nasser, en Jan Yunis, fue usado por Hamás para interrogar y torturar a sus propios civiles.
The Israel Defense Forces say that Nasser Hospital in Khan Yunis was used by Hamas to interrogate and torture its own civilians.
Si es verdad, estamos hablando de algo que viola el derecho internacional a muchos niveles.
If it's true, we're talking about something that violates international law on many levels.
And the phrase 'if it's true' is doing real work there.
Because Nasser Hospital has been at the center of contested claims almost since the beginning of this war.
Exacto.
Exactly.
Nasser es el hospital más grande del sur de Gaza.
Nasser is the largest hospital in southern Gaza.
Es fundamental para la población civil de esa zona.
It's fundamental for the civilian population of that area.
Y desde 2023, ha sido objeto de múltiples operaciones militares israelíes.
And since 2023, it has been the target of multiple Israeli military operations.
Israel dice que encontró evidencias de uso militar dentro del hospital.
Israel says it found evidence of military use inside the hospital.
Los médicos y las organizaciones humanitarias lo niegan o lo cuestionan.
Doctors and humanitarian organizations deny or question this.
This is the third or fourth time Israeli forces have moved through that building.
At a certain point, the hospital itself becomes a kind of ongoing argument about the whole war.
Es que el Hospital Nasser tiene una historia larga.
Nasser Hospital has a long history.
Fue construido en los años setenta con ayuda de Egipto.
It was built in the seventies with Egyptian aid.
Durante décadas fue el hospital de referencia para todo el sur de Gaza, con cirugía especializada, oncología, unidades de cuidados intensivos.
For decades it was the reference hospital for all of southern Gaza, with specialized surgery, oncology, intensive care units.
Antes de la guerra, atendía a cientos de miles de personas al año.
Before the war, it treated hundreds of thousands of people a year.
And now we're talking about it as a potential site of torture.
That's a long fall for one building.
La primera operación israelí en Nasser fue en febrero de 2024.
The first Israeli operation at Nasser was in February 2024.
Israel dijo que había encontrado túneles y armas dentro del complejo.
Israel said it found tunnels and weapons inside the complex.
Liberaron a algunos rehenes israelíes.
They freed some Israeli hostages.
Pero también hubo imágenes muy perturbadoras: pacientes en camas sin poder ser evacuados, personal médico detenido para interrogatorio.
But there were also very disturbing images: patients in beds unable to be evacuated, medical staff detained for questioning.
I covered enough conflict zones to know that the truth inside a hospital in an active war is almost always messier than any single narrative.
The building becomes a blank screen that everyone projects their version of the war onto.
Y eso es exactamente el problema legal.
And that's exactly the legal problem.
El derecho internacional humanitario protege los hospitales de manera especial.
International humanitarian law protects hospitals in a special way.
Los Convenios de Ginebra son muy claros: los establecimientos médicos no pueden ser atacados.
The Geneva Conventions are very clear: medical facilities cannot be attacked.
Pero esa protección tiene una condición importante.
But that protection has an important condition.
Right, there's a clause.
If the hospital is being used for military purposes, it loses protection.
Sí, pero es más complicado que eso.
Yes, but it's more complicated than that.
La ley exige que se dé una advertencia antes de atacar, que haya tiempo razonable para que los pacientes sean evacuados, y que el uso militar sea real y significativo, no solo la presencia de un soldado herido.
The law requires a warning before attacking, reasonable time for patients to be evacuated, and the military use must be real and significant, not just the presence of one wounded soldier.
El estándar legal es muy alto.
The legal standard is very high.
And the burden of proof is on the attacking force to demonstrate that the protection has been forfeited.
Which is conveniently hard to verify in the middle of a war.
Claro.
Right.
Y hay otro problema: el concepto de uso dual.
And there's another problem: the concept of dual use.
Si Hamás usa un hospital como escudo, ¿quién es responsable de las consecuencias para los civiles?
If Hamas uses a hospital as a shield, who is responsible for the consequences for civilians?
El derecho internacional dice que ambas partes tienen obligaciones.
International law says both parties have obligations.
Hamás no puede usar el hospital como base militar.
Hamas cannot use the hospital as a military base.
Israel no puede destruirlo sin cumplir requisitos muy estrictos.
Israel cannot destroy it without meeting very strict requirements.
Theoretically neat.
Practically, a disaster.
Exacto.
Exactly.
Y lo que hace esta nueva acusación especialmente grave es que no se trata de un uso táctico del hospital, como almacenar armas.
And what makes this new accusation especially serious is that it's not about tactical use of the hospital, like storing weapons.
Se habla de tortura sistemática a civiles palestinos.
We're talking about systematic torture of Palestinian civilians.
Eso ya entra en el terreno de los crímenes de guerra cometidos contra la propia población que Hamás dice representar.
That already enters the territory of war crimes committed against the very population Hamas claims to represent.
That detail is crucial, and I think it gets lost.
This isn't Hamas targeting the occupation.
This is Hamas going after Palestinians who, what, criticized them?
Collaborated?
Resisted their authority?
Es que Hamás siempre ha tenido un aparato de control interno muy duro.
Hamas has always had a very hard internal control apparatus.
Antes de la guerra, en Gaza se sabía que criticar abiertamente a Hamás podía tener consecuencias.
Before the war, it was known in Gaza that openly criticizing Hamas could have consequences.
Hay testimonios documentados de periodistas locales detenidos, de activistas que desaparecieron.
There are documented testimonies of local journalists detained, activists who disappeared.
Eso no es nuevo.
That's not new.
Lo nuevo es que ahora todo ocurre en medio de una guerra y dentro de un hospital.
What's new is that now all of this happens in the middle of a war and inside a hospital.
I spent time in Beirut in the nineties watching Hezbollah consolidate control over neighborhoods.
There's a pattern with armed groups that govern: the moment they face external pressure is often exactly when internal repression intensifies.
Es un fenómeno que se ha visto en muchos conflictos.
It's a phenomenon seen in many conflicts.
Cuando un grupo está bajo presión militar extrema, la paranoia interna crece.
When a group is under extreme military pressure, internal paranoia grows.
Cualquiera puede ser sospechoso de ser un colaborador o un espía.
Anyone can be suspected of being a collaborator or a spy.
Y los mecanismos de control se vuelven más violentos porque ya no hay nada que perder.
And the control mechanisms become more violent because there's nothing left to lose.
Which tells you something about the state Hamas is in right now.
And something very dark about what the population of Gaza is living through on multiple fronts simultaneously.
Porque es importante que entendamos el contexto del sistema de salud en Gaza.
Because it's important that we understand the context of Gaza's healthcare system.
Antes de octubre de 2023, Gaza ya tenía un sistema médico con recursos muy limitados.
Before October 2023, Gaza already had a medical system with very limited resources.
Había escasez crónica de medicamentos, de equipos de diagnóstico, de especialistas.
There was chronic shortage of medicines, diagnostic equipment, specialists.
Era un sistema que funcionaba con lo mínimo.
It was a system operating on the bare minimum.
And now?
Ahora la Organización Mundial de la Salud dice que solo un pequeño porcentaje de los hospitales de Gaza funciona con capacidad mínima.
Now the World Health Organization says that only a small percentage of Gaza's hospitals are functioning at minimum capacity.
Nasser, que era el más grande del sur, ha sido dañado en varias operaciones militares.
Nasser, which was the largest in the south, has been damaged in several military operations.
El Hospital Al-Shifa, que era el más grande del norte, quedó destruido.
Al-Shifa Hospital, the largest in the north, was destroyed.
Hay médicos que operan a pacientes sin anestesia porque no queda.
There are doctors operating on patients without anesthesia because there is none left.
I've read accounts from surgeons who trained in Europe, well-equipped operating rooms, the whole thing, and they're now doing amputations by lamplight.
That's not a metaphor.
That's what's happening.
Y en ese contexto, cuando un hospital que todavía funciona, aunque sea parcialmente, es usado para algo que no tiene nada que ver con curar a la gente, el daño no es solo físico.
And in that context, when a hospital that still functions, even partially, is used for something that has nothing to do with healing people, the damage is not just physical.
Es el daño a la confianza.
It's damage to trust.
La gente deja de ir al hospital porque tiene miedo de lo que puede encontrar allí.
People stop going to the hospital because they're afraid of what they might find there.
That's something that doesn't show up in casualty counts.
But it kills people just the same.
The pregnant woman who decides not to go in.
The kid with appendicitis whose parents wait too long.
Exacto.
Exactly.
En salud pública, la confianza en las instituciones es un recurso que se tarda años en construir y se puede destruir en días.
In public health, trust in institutions is a resource that takes years to build and can be destroyed in days.
Y en Gaza, esa confianza ya estaba muy dañada.
And in Gaza, that trust was already severely damaged.
Esta acusación, si se confirma, añade otra capa de destrucción.
This accusation, if confirmed, adds another layer of destruction.
Let me ask you something directly.
Who investigates this?
Because the IDF is accusing Hamas, the IDF has also been operating inside that hospital for months.
Any independent investigation would require access that nobody has.
Ese es el problema central.
That is the central problem.
La Corte Penal Internacional tiene una investigación abierta sobre Gaza que incluye a ambas partes.
The International Criminal Court has an open investigation into Gaza that includes both sides.
Pero la CPI no tiene policía propia ni puede acceder a las pruebas sin cooperación.
But the ICC has no police force of its own and cannot access evidence without cooperation.
Israel no reconoce la jurisdicción de la CPI.
Israel does not recognize the ICC's jurisdiction.
Hamás, obviamente, tampoco.
Hamas, obviously, neither does.
So you have a court with jurisdiction over crimes, and neither party will cooperate.
Which means the court exists but the accountability doesn't.
La CPI, a largo plazo, depende de que los países miembros detengan a los acusados.
The ICC, in the long run, depends on member states detaining the accused.
Pero si los acusados nunca salen de su territorio o de un territorio protegido, la orden de arresto es solo un papel.
But if the accused never leave their territory or a protected territory, the arrest warrant is just a piece of paper.
Hemos visto esto con Putin, hemos visto esto con otros líderes.
We've seen this with Putin, we've seen this with other leaders.
La impunidad no es un accidente del sistema.
Impunity is not an accident of the system.
Es casi una característica.
It's almost a feature.
I find that genuinely hard to sit with.
You build this entire architecture of international law, the Geneva Conventions, the Rome Statute, decades of work, and then in practice you end up with surgeons operating without anesthesia and nobody answering for it.
Y sin embargo, el derecho internacional importa.
And yet, international law matters.
No porque funcione perfectamente, sino porque crea un estándar.
Not because it works perfectly, but because it creates a standard.
Documenta.
It documents.
Define qué es un crimen.
It defines what is a crime.
Y a veces, años después, esa documentación sirve.
And sometimes, years later, that documentation is useful.
Milosevic fue juzgado.
Milosevic was tried.
Hubo condenas por Rwanda.
There were convictions for Rwanda.
No es justicia inmediata, pero es algo.
It's not immediate justice, but it's something.
Cold comfort when you're the one in the hospital bed.
But you're right that the alternative, no standard at all, is worse.
Lo que me parece más importante destacar es esto: los que más pierden con la destrucción de los hospitales y con la violación de la protección médica son siempre los civiles que no tienen otra opción.
What I think is most important to highlight is this: those who lose the most with the destruction of hospitals and the violation of medical protection are always the civilians who have no other option.
No los militares, no los líderes políticos.
Not the military, not the political leaders.
Los civiles.
Civilians.
Siempre.
Always.
And that's where this story ends up, regardless of who exactly did what inside Nasser Hospital.
Whether it was Hamas using the wards for something other than medicine, or the operations that damaged the building, or both, the person who pays is the same person every time.
Oye, una cosa que quiero mencionar antes de que terminemos.
Hey, one thing I want to mention before we finish.
Usé la palabra 'destacar' antes, y me di cuenta de que es una de esas palabras que los estudiantes de español evitan porque parece formal.
I used the word 'destacar' earlier, and I realized it's one of those words that Spanish learners avoid because it sounds formal.
Pero es muy útil y muy común en la conversación normal.
But it's very useful and very common in normal conversation.
You said 'lo que me parece más importante destacar.' I caught that.
What exactly does 'destacar' cover?
Because in English we'd reach for different verbs depending on context: highlight, stand out, emphasize.
Exacto, 'destacar' hace todo ese trabajo.
Exactly, 'destacar' does all that work.
Puedes decir 'quiero destacar algo importante' cuando estás enfatizando una idea.
You can say 'quiero destacar algo importante' when you're emphasizing an idea.
O 'esa característica destaca entre las demás' cuando algo sobresale.
Or 'esa característica destaca entre las demás' when something stands out.
Y también 'es una figura que destaca en su campo' para decir que alguien es notable.
And also 'es una figura que destaca en su campo' to say someone is notable.
Un verbo, tres usos.
One verb, three uses.
One verb that in English you'd need three or four words for depending on the context.
That's the kind of efficiency that makes me feel like I'm losing at this language.
Llevas ocho años perdiendo, Fletcher.
You've been losing for eight years, Fletcher.
Pero con más elegancia cada año, hay que reconocerlo.
But with more elegance each year, I have to admit.